Bill 19 — School Amendment Act, 2025 (continued)

As the newly appointed critic for child care and early childhood education, it is my pleasure to speak to this bill. At first glance, this bill appears helpful, allowing more child care programs on school grounds so that parents can find care where their children already learn. But we must begin by acknowledging the obvious. This government already did this five years ago. In 2020, it passed Bill 8, creating sections 85.2 and 85.3 of the School Act to authorize board-operated before- and after-school care. The legislative groundwork has already been in place. What’s still missing? [Interjection.]

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Raj Chouhan

BC NDP

4/10/2025

Hon. Members, on Monday, April 7, the member for Kamloops Centre raised a question of privilege respecting the ability of the official opposition to scrutinize the 2025-26 budget and main estimates before the House, particularly following the enactment of Bill 8, intituled Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025, last week. The Minister of Finance requested an opportunity to make representations to the Chair on the matter and did so in the House on Tuesday, April 8. The Chair thanks the member for Kamloops Centre and the Minister of Finance for their submissions. The Chair is now prepared to rule on the matter. It is the role of the Chair to examine submissions made under a question of privilege and to determine on the evidence presented whether a prima facie breach of privilege has occurred. As acknowledged by the member for Kamloops Centre, in considering a question of privilege the Chair must first assess if the initial criterion has been met, being whether the question was raised at the earliest opportunity. This strict requirement and the inability of the Chair to relax it is canvassed in detail in Parliamentary Practice in British Columbia, fifth edition, at pages 401 to 403. In order to satisfy the earliest opportunity criterion, it is the view of the Chair that the member for Kamloops Centre had a reasonable opportunity to, at minimum, reserve his right to raise a question of privilege on this matter while he prepared his submission. On this basis, the Chair concludes that this criterion has not been met, and it is the ruling of the Chair that a prima facie breach of privilege has not occurred. However, the Chair wishes to take this opportunity to provide guidance to the House as it relates to some of the matters at hand. The Committee of Supply is tasked with examining requested annual appropriations for each ministry, social office or other purpose. A final supply act enacted by the Legislature thereafter serves as the legal mechanism by which those appropriations are assessed by the government from the consolidated revenue fund. While fiscal forecasts can change, the Chair accepts that the decisions before the House and the Committee of Supply, in terms of main estimates appropriations being requested by the government, have not changed. Expenditures by the government cannot exceed individual vote totals without additional legislative authority. Having reviewed the written submissions, the member for Kamloops Centre and the Minister of Finance disagree with respect to the interpretation of relevant statutory provisions. While that is not a matter for the Chair to adjudicate, the Chair can appreciate the arguments made by the member for Kamloops Centre and the frustration that members of the House may feel when they are being asked to consider budgetary measures in an ever-changing fiscal environment. The Chair trusts and expects that the House and the role in the financial life of the province will be fully respected and that the government will fulfil its statutory obligations to provide timely updates throughout the fiscal year.

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Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Shall clause 9 pass? So ordered. Division has been called. The question is on clause 9 of Bill 8.

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Well, respectfully to the minister, she doesn’t get to decide what I find relevant to why I may or may not vote in favour of a clause in a bill. The minister has said that the bill has to be taken in its entirety and all clauses are integral to each other. So I’m assuming that all clauses are being worked on at the same time. The minister, in her own budget document, on page 66, says that government remains committed to removing the consumer carbon tax should the federal government remove the requirement for carbon pricing across Canada. That’s in a document that was presented to the Legislature on March 4, which would have gone to the King’s Printer sometime in February, which means that decision of that wording was signed off on quite some time ago. Today we had the Government House Leader, in justifying Standing Order 81, say that the opposition will have every opportunity to stand up and everyone that wants to speak on Bill 8 will get a chance to speak on Bill 8, and all questions that need to be asked will be fully canvassed and fully answered by government. And repeatedly, I’m being told by the Chair that I’m being repetitive, and that’s because the minister has repeatedly refused to answer the question. If the question was answered, I would move on. The question is really not that difficult. When was clause 9 beginning to be drafted by government? It’s a pretty standard question that opposition asks about every piece of legislation in this place. When did it start to get worked on? It gets asked about almost every piece of legislation, and usually there’s an answer. There are not four questions in a row of a minister refusing to answer a most basic question, let alone a question about one singular clause, let alone the whole bill as to when it was being drafted. But we are dealing with this at the eleventh hour on a topic that was referenced on March 4 in a government document that would have gone to a printer in February. I don’t think it’s unreasonable for people to know, based on clause 9 having provisions that will be a catch-all, to catch any errors by regulation and allow them to be retroactive — there’s that word again — to April 1, when clause 9 was being drafted to make sure there was a catch-all to catch any errors or omissions in the removal of carbon tax. To be abundantly clear, I will ask the minister again. When was the work done to draft clause 9?

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

It’s not a fictional version of the act. The premise for Bill 8 was that it had to be done. It had to be done at the earliest possible date, which was today — well, yesterday now — because the federal government didn’t make a change until March 15. Despite the fact that we had a budget come in on March 4, despite from January 31 on, every federal leader or potential leader was saying they were going to scrap the consumer carbon tax, the government said they couldn’t take any action at all on carbon tax removal in advance of any of that happening. In actual fact, and I get that it might wind up being slightly more complicated than just the provisions in (d), however, the basic catch-all of clause 9 is that anything that’s missed can still be dealt with by regulation on the premise and the fundamental goal to remove the consumer carbon tax, up to and including the schedule, which actually sets out taking the carbon tax to zero. The first question I asked was, “If aviation fuel was missed in this schedule and was discovered on May 1, could it be made retroactive to zero as of April 1 under the provisions of clause 9?” and the answer was yes. So there was the ability for the government to bring forward legislation dealing with carbon tax over the last month and a bit that would have set the stage for a zeroing of the carbon tax to be done by order in council if and when the federal government changed the rules around the federal backstop. Clause 9 seems to take that into account by making sure it’s a catch-all of anything that may be missed in the few clauses that are in Bill 8 because, as the minister says, it’s very unwieldy to try to unwind a tax. I can appreciate that. Things may get missed. But this very clearly creates the legislative framework for things to be dealt with by regulation, up to and including the rates of tax, retroactively, to April 1. Is the minister now saying that the first answer that I asked on this section was wrong —that, in fact, you cannot amend and make those types of changes on the example that I gave around aviation fuel?

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Mr. Chair, I’m not sure how to reframe, respectfully, when I’m asking, frankly, different questions. The minister has said it’s the totality of the bill. I am painting a picture, clause by clause, of the totality of the bill: that every single one of these clauses has been dealt with retroactively, except for the one clause in section 35, which previously hadn’t. Now in clause 6, it actually is being dealt with in a retroactive manner. So the discussion, to this point, has been that we weren’t able to deal with this bill in a retroactive manner. Clause 6 is all about retroactivity. I’m not quite sure how we can get to what the government’s intention is on a bill without asking questions specific to each clause. The questions I’m asking, although they may be repetitive about retroactivity, actually are specific to each of the clauses, based on the sections in the act, of the carbon tax, and based on the interconnectivity with that and the other provisions that we’ve read in other acts. I’ll be delving into the Income Tax Act when we get to there as well, and the retroactivity potential on those. Really, I’m kind of at a loss. I get that the minister might not like the line of questioning and feels it’s repetitive. But clause 6 is much different than the other clauses. Clause 6 actually allows for retroactivity once Bill 8 is passed. I’m not sure why the government doesn’t want to answer the political calculus. Only the minister can answer that. The technical staff cannot answer that question. I tried canvassing that in the briefing today. They rightfully pointed out that it would have to be more of a politician’s answer to these types of questions. I’m not quite sure when the opposition is supposed to access information from this government if we’re not empowered and enabled to ask the question. It’s up to the minister whether they actually want to answer what the political calculus was on this versus the technical calculus of this bill in its entirety, given that we are now on clause 5 of five, with retroactivity previously being established and now being established in this clause specifically.

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Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Welcome back to Committee of the Whole, Bill 8. We’ll be starting at clause 4.

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Well, in this year’s budget, there’s also $3 billion of carbon tax that is being removed — sorry, $2.8 billion of carbon tax that is being removed — as a revenue source. So apparently, what’s in the budget is somewhat irrelevant, as there’s this ongoing review of all things in the budget, including the allocations of carbon tax. One would assume that green initiatives like Innovate B.C…. Again, the government has repeatedly referred to transit investments as coming from carbon tax, some of those programs coming out of the $1.8 billion. So I’m just…. These aren’t really gotcha questions. It’s just trying to get a clear sense of what is actually truly on the cutting block or not with this government’s plans. Again, this is the government’s prerogative — to bring this bill forward with the spending priorities attached with it or the cuts that might have to happen as a result of this. It’s a confidence vote. I think the public and the opposition are entitled to figure out, before they vote with confidence for the government or not, whether they have confidence that this has been well-thought-out or not. The minister made it seem like Innovate B.C. has money in the budget and that that won’t be touched, based on how she framed her answer. We’ll probably be going long enough that we’ll probably have the Blues updated by the time we get further on, so we can always go back and read the exact wording. Then when the question was around transit versus cars, the impression was that people taking transit will have the same access they always have. In fact, they might have other low-cost avenues to access transit. I’m just simply trying to get a sense of if those are still safe and not threatened by any potential review in the first quarter. Again, we won’t be reviewing Bill 8 in the first quarter — we’re reviewing it tonight — and the intentions of government wrapped around Bill 8. So could we just get some clarity on those two items that have had fairly clear indication, at least to the Green Party — I’m not sure if the minister thought I wasn’t paying attention or not, but I was — compared to the answers that I was receiving for the previous hour and a bit?

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Hon. Brenda Bailey

BC NDP

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

This bill that we’re talking about tonight, Bill 8, does not address the area that the member is asking the question about. This bill is specific to the consumer carbon tax, and I would recommend respectfully that the member take up this question with the Minister of Energy and Climate Solutions.

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

To be clear then, we can’t identify any savings for staffing by getting rid of the carbon tax. We can’t identify any programs that may be cut or not out of the $1.8 billion remaining that’s not been identified of carbon tax taxation that would be removed with Bill 8. We know that there would still be $200 million of revenue coming in from the industrial side, and we know that low-income households can expect $1 billion less in payments. Does that about summarize the government’s position on Bill 8 at this point in terms of the $3 billion of carbon tax that’s slated to be collected starting tomorrow to the end of the fiscal year?

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

It’s disappointing that the minister finds it cumbersome that we’re trying to have a conversation about $1.8 billion of cuts, service cuts, which would be six times the dollar value that they have identified supposedly in the first $90 billion of the budget. Carbon tax obviously takes quite a bit to administer. Has the ministry done a review on any potential cost savings in terms of the bureaucracy associated with processing, auditing, managing, collecting carbon tax? What does that workforce look like before Bill 8 and then once Bill 8 is passed?

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Well, there’s a wide range of programs that have the exact same title as when there were still transparency reports provided, before the NDP removed the legal necessity for carbon tax transparency reports to be made on where the revenue neutrality came into with carbon tax. Basic credits for Film Incentive B.C. and production services sales tax credits on page 60 of the budget, almost word for word what was in the last transparency report for tax credits applied by carbon tax. I said at the beginning that people can dispute whether or not it was really carbon tax–appropriate or not, but that’s what was associated with carbon tax. Clean buildings tax credit on page 60 was also referenced in that same listing. Interactive digital media tax credit, made permanent in this year’s budget, was listed repeatedly in those same reports. Small business venture capital tax credit listed and associated with carbon tax. The homeowner grant associated with carbon tax. Training credit for apprentices associated with carbon tax. And there are others that I could go into as well. There was the seniors home renovation program, which I don’t think still exists. The corporate income tax had been increased up to $500,000 as a threshold. That still exists at that threshold now in this year’s budget. I find it incredible that we are standing here being asked to make a vote that the Premier has declared to be a confidence vote and the government cannot, with any confidence, tell us what is going to happen to $1.8 billion worth of programs if this vote goes through. I don’t think they’re unrealistic questions for an opposition being asked to provide that confidence to the government in terms of removing a tax, which Bill 8 is purporting to do, but when you remove a tax, you create a big hole in revenue. The minister would have us believe that despite this budget and only being able to point to $300 million worth of savings in this budget, which is arguable about how much is actual savings or not…. There was a review, despite months of lead time to get this budget created. Despite months of lead time, the government was only able to land on $300 million. And now, in the backdrop of public sector negotiations beginning with 80 percent of the public service in B.C., the government is going to take meaningful action for cuts with that being the backdrop for this $1.8 billion, let alone the whole rest of the budget of another 90-or-so-billion dollars’ worth of spending, when only $300 million was found on $90 billion to begin with. Is there a target that the minister has, that the government has, for this $1.8 billion for savings, or is it truly the intention of the government to add $1.8 billion to the overall deficit of B.C.?

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

The minister’s boss, the Premier, has decided to make this a confidence vote. The opposition is trying to figure out whether or not we support the government continuing on tonight or not based on the decisions the government is making on carbon tax being removed. It’s not as simple as the carbon tax is being removed, and this government gets to have a ticker-tape parade thrown in their honour. People have the right to know and have an understanding of the gut thought the government put in to $2.8 billion of lost revenue. So far, the only thing this minister has been willing to repeatedly commit to is removing a subsidy for low-income households. We are simply asking for the same clarity on very straightforward and basic questions on other programs that are directly tied and have been for the better part of almost two decades to the carbon tax in B.C. The first one I’m asking about is the homeowner grant program, which very clearly provides an extra $200 for rural and northern homes and was instituted and funded by carbon tax, a carbon tax that, if Bill 8 passes, will no longer exist. So it is directly tied to Bill 8 and the government decisions around Bill 8 and, frankly, how the opposition may or may not vote at third reading for Bill 8. So how can the minister say that decisions haven’t been made on something that would impact the first quarter numbers when we will be gone from this place, not able to scrutinize what those program cuts might be, and get a better understanding on that, when we’re here tonight because the government said there was such urgency to deal with carbon tax and it all had to be done today. If there’s been clear language about what’s going to happen or is expected to happen at the price of the pumps or on people’s home heating bill, I do not understand why it’s unreasonable for those same homeowners to get a clear understanding from this government what decisions have been made around the homeowner grant. Again, if the homeowner grant has not had a final decision, does the minister not find that it would be problematic to tell homeowners in June that they no longer have a homeowner grant for $200 extra when they could have answered that tonight? In June, it’s too late for most people filing for their homeowner grant in July.

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Review a program when the budget has already been set as of March 4. This means there is not the ability to add money to said program, or one would assume it’s in the budget already. For the minister to say they are reviewing, with the backdrop of discussion around how $1.8 billion of revenue will be gone if Bill 8 gets passed tonight, can only mean the review is the government’s intention to cut some or all of the programs associated with that $1.8 billion. The timeline the minister has now provided…. Again, we are standing here tonight because the government got the Speaker to agree to the fact that this was an urgent matter that desperately needed to be dealt with all in one day. Couldn’t possibly wait for an extra day or two so that we can get proper information and discuss things with stakeholders that might be impacted by the decisions made in Bill 8. This is of the government’s making that we are standing here tonight trying to get transparency on this. It’s a pretty straightforward question that I think homeowners in rural and northern B.C. deserve to know. If Bill 8 gets passed tonight, is the extra $200 that they receive for their homeowner grant that has been in place since 2009 — is it on the chopping block or is it safe?

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Peter Milobar

BC Liberals

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Well, I guess the problem with that is that in the budget document, tabled March 4, there was language in there from the government saying that they were already working on a strategy if the federal government was to remove carbon tax. There are some significant programs that are attached to carbon tax. By the time Q1 reporting happens, which…. Let’s see. It would be April, May, June. I believe it comes out sometime in late August, early September. We have the Q1 reporting out. One program in particular will be long since come and gone. In 2009, when carbon tax was first introduced, the homeowner grant for rural and northern residents was increased by $200 a household. I think the homeowners in rural and northern B.C. would want to know whether or not their $200 extra homeowner grant is in jeopardy with Bill 8 or not.

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Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Good evening, Members. I call Committee of the Whole on Bill 8, Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025, to order. I call upon the Minister of Finance. Do you have any remarks?

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Raj Chouhan

BC NDP

3/31/2025

Bill 8, Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025, has been read a third time and has passed. Members, I am just advised the Lieutenant Governor is on her way. She should be here momentarily, so you can remain in your seats.

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Raj Chouhan

BC NDP

3/31/2025

Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Members, the question is third reading of Bill 8, Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025.

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Bill 8 — Carbon Tax Amendment Act, 2025

Section A reports Bill 8 complete without amendment.

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Hon. Ravi Kahlon

BC NDP

3/31/2025

Estimates: Ministry of Infrastructure (continued)

In the main chamber, I call Committee of Supply of the Ministry of Infrastructure. In the Douglas Fir Room, I call committee on Bill 8.

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